Co-created writer Jordan Clark with artist Atagun İlhan (Poison Ivy, Milestone Universe: The Shadow Cabinet), Ancestral Recall is a five-issue mini-series published by AHOY Comics. Described as a historical science fiction comedy, the book centers on an eccentric abstract painter looking to solve his wife’s disappearance with the help of the kid next door, and the power to connect to Black historical figures.
Clark, a graduate of the Milestone Initiative, also has credits at DC, IDW Publishing, and Image Comics. The Beat met with him to discuss his first creator-owned book, Ancestral Recall.
Ancestral Recall #3 cover by Atagun İlhan
Adam Karenina Sherif: I haven’t done that much comics journalism this past year or so, but your book came up and it’s speaking to things I really care about. Specifically, different facets of Blackness and Black experience.
This book says from the off that Blackness isn’t just one thing. There’s stuff in here on craft, on approaches to art, the idea of communicating through the work – how often do we see that through a Black lens? It feels like you’re exploring Blackness through lesser-talked-about lenses.
Jordan Clark: I don’t want to say “when Black people are allowed to,” because we’re always allowed to do anything, but it’s about when the space is created for something like Sorry To Bother You or Random Acts of Flyness. Things that are just weird or different.
One of the things that always interests me in Black art, whether that’s in the diaspora or Africa, is double consciousness. This is art we’re making for ourselves, to speak to something — but then there’s the dominant culture pushing down on it and dissecting it. Sometimes that’s literal art being stolen.
I think about Dancehall in the UK — it’s about connection to home and to express a set of specific feelings, and then white people will be like “hey, this sounds good…”
Sherif: And usually there’s no asking permission.
Clark: Right. And in the US, too, if we look at jazz, at the Harlem Renaissance…all these things are coming out of a necessity of creation and expression, but then there’s the commercial, commodification side of it. Where does this art exist on the spectrum between expression, and something to be sold?
Even with this book, it’s not made for white people, but they can still get something out of it. It might be similar to something like Atlanta in that respect. It’s a direct conversation with a specific audience.
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: Often, we take white media as universal, but of course it isn’t. Nothing’s universal, and I think it’s fine to be clear about who we’re in conversation with. And if you’re outside of that, there’s still an invitation there to engage with it, if you can deal with not being centered.
Clark: Black people, we love Severance, and I love Pee-wee’s Playhouse! And it’s not even that they were made for white people, but the way these things are disseminated is as the standard norm. You’re expected to have the cultural vocabulary to understand and enjoy it. But any time there’s something different, or from a different perspective, there’s an expectation of explainers.
Sherif: Rather than explainers, you’ve got historical touchpoints in Ancestral Recall. I get some Jean-Michel Basquiat from the protagonist Melvin, like an answer to “What if Basquiat had lived and become a chilled-out west coast uncle?” I think having conversations between historical touchpoints is fascinating – and here it’s for a Black audience.
Clark: It’s definitely an intentional move. This is my debut creator-owned project, so it was an opportunity to take a big swing and see what happens. Often in comics spaces, for Black writers, it’s like, “if I make the Black book, then that’s the one everyone associates me with.” But then I think about somebody like Ronald Wimberly with Prince Of Cats. Like, “this is it, this is what I do.”
Even thinking about someone like Dwayne McDuffie, even if he wasn’t writing a “Black” book, it became that because he was writing it. And it wasn’t like audiences would tune it out, but it had a certain connotation to it. And he obviously was not one to shy away from conversations or putting real issues into his work – but he also just loved superheroes and comics, and he wanted to write books like everyone else.
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: I’m reminded of Priest putting Everett Ross in Black Panther because otherwise some people wouldn’t have read the book.
Clark: I have often wondered about the necessity of the white insert. I do see how it’s benefited some stories, but usually, if you’re a Black viewer or reader, who do you get to be? You get to be the friend or the side character. Sometimes that’s a position white people have to inhabit, too.
My intention here was to make something where I’m speaking to Black readers specifically. It’s not to shut anybody else out – feel free to come in as well. But that’s the audience I was writing for.
Sherif: The thing of “if it’s not for me, it’s bad” seems relevant to recent comics discourse.
Clark: Just from a general art and media perspective, I love seeing things from other perspectives and learning how the world works through another person’s eyes. It’s Pride Month right now, and I truly value any work I can get from that perspective because it’s not my perspective, because I want to be able to be closer to queer friends, queer family members, and to understand their experiences better.
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: The historical elements in Ancestral Recall are great prompts. For example, I didn’t know about Samuel Marlow. He was friends with Dashiell Hammett and Raymond Chandler, and this is who their characters are based on – I had no idea.
E.H. Carr says that facts about the past only become facts of history when someone uses them in an argument, or in a case for something. You’re pulling these real people into a new story, putting them into a new conversation – they’re not just floating in the ether. Which is valuable at any time, but especially right now when we’re seeing real-time erasure of Black history.
Clark: From when I started working on this book three or four years ago to now, things have escalated pretty quickly. There was a conversation around Critical Race Theory, which has escalated to DEI, which has escalated to all these other culture war things. And part of this is people not understanding how history works. It has so much to do with what gets written down and then preserved. And right now we’re seeing a push for erasure.
And I think in particular I was looking for figures who were not well known, or who weren’t necessarily prominent figures within movements. There are so many instances where Black people have lived full, three-dimensional lives, but it’s not considered important enough to be properly documented. So much of my research came from Black historical sites, Black newspapers, from folks who did feel it was important to keep these stories alive.
But if you don’t know Sam Marlowe, you might just think Philip Marlowe is purely down to Raymond Chandler’s imagination. Or that Sam Spade only comes from Dashiell Hammett. But Sam Marlowe was real – and what must it have been like to be a Black man working as a private detective in 1930s Los Angeles? How good must he have been at it to make it and then also be put in touch with these writers to share his stories?
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: The burden of “urgency” can sometimes be in tension with telling the story you want to tell. In the book, you’ve got traces to the present moment – police and ICE sweeps, handing over our data and security to AI or whatever, the historical erasure we’ve mentioned. Is it a tension for you, or does it come as a natural balance?
Clark: These are all things I’m interested in in my day-to-day real life. A lot of the ways that I process the world around me is through stories – to play around with it and put it on the page. I’d rather be talking about it than not. And I’d rather be working through it than not. So in the book, it is the real world, and it’s also not. It takes place in Oakland, but it’s also a future world.
At the same time, life is rough enough in and of itself, so I’m trying to have a balance with levity, humour, action sequences, intimate moments — without shying away from those bigger themes.
Sherif: Embedding these traces also leaves a record.
Clark: As a reader, I go back to my favorite writers like James Baldwin or Kurt Vonnegut and as the world changes and I change, I find new meanings and things I can take away and apply to my day-to-day life. I would like people to be able to do that here, I want it to stick with you.
Looking back at art created during dystopian times or times of extreme hardship, it can be bleak and cathartic. But even with something like Parable of the Sower, Octavia Butler talked about writing to create herself and to create new worlds. She wasn’t a pessimist. Her characters were fighting for a world worth living in. Part of what I’m hoping to contribute is a call to look at the past and some of the things we’ve been able to overcome and to take inspiration from people who found ways to live the life they wanted to live.
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: Speaking of record, you and Atagun İlhan have both participated in the Milestone Initiative – such an important, continuing legacy in comics. You’ve also both done work at DC that has a topical edge. Atagun’s done Poison Ivy, you’ve done Aquaman. Comparatively, what’s the experience been like putting together your first creator-owned project?
Clark: I know Atagun was looking at this as a chance to have a looser visual style, a bit of playfulness and experimentation. With Poison Ivy or Milestone characters, they do look a certain way, for example. But here, it’s an open conversation.
And we definitely wanted to challenge ourselves. Working in Big Two mainstream spaces, I’ve never really felt like there’s a mandate. I’ve had levels of freedom that I’m not sure are typical. But I’m sure the closer you get to the flagship titles, the more there’s a specific way it needs to be done. I’ve had experiences along those lines with licensed IP. And in those contexts there are clear parameters which give you a framework.
But in the creator-owned space, you’re hoping the parachute comes out when you’re free-falling. Until you’re seeing it out in the world, you’re really in an incubated bubble with something that hasn’t been tested before. If you’re working on Spawn, you know what to include and you can write to that, speak to that — but with this you don’t know what people’s reaction is going to be. Which is where it’s fun — characters get to be how you picture them, you can include moments you might not see at a major publisher, things can play out and flow, and there’s no obligation to explain things.
I’ve tried to challenge myself to see what is possible for me. Bowie talked about it – if you’re creating in a space of 100% safety and you have a formula down, it can be easy to keep doing that. But once you take that step forwards and you feel a sense of danger and uncertainty, that’s oftentimes where people do their best work.
And Ahoy have been great about allowing us the space to tell the story we wanted to tell. The notes we’ve had encouraged us to push more, to experiment more.
Interior art from Ancestral Recall #3 by Atagun İlhan
Sherif: You can definitely feel that sense of creative adventure with this book – including visually. With the layouts, with the transitions to historical sequences – there’s a feeling of playfulness, supported by the color palette.
Clark: That’s one of the most enjoyable parts of working on the book, seeing Atagun getting weird and really cooking. If you enjoyed the first issue, wait ‘til you see the rest. He really opens up and does wonderful things.
Sherif: Closing thoughts?
Clark: Closing thoughts, closing sales pitch – my favorite periods of time in comics are the moments where people have felt emboldened to do whatever’s calling to them. I feel like we’re entering a period now where people are really searching.
My goal was to put out the kind of book I wanted to read that I wasn’t seeing. And to make something left of center while we’re at it. I love seeing what happens when people take big swings, here’s mine.
To take it back to the top, we think of the white gaze being the one with validity, but the Black gaze is infinite. No matter where Black people have moved to or been taken to in the world, we always find a way to create community and a culture and a way of being. It’s important to preserve and celebrate that, which is part of what I want this book to be.
I really hope that when someone picks up the book – I hope you see yourself reflected in it. And if that isn’t your lived experience, I hope it gives you some insight into another space, another world.
Ancestral Recall #5 cover by Atagun İlhan
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Ancestral Recall #3 will be in stores on October 8th.
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